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| Treating nonsense with nonsense - Strategies for a better life [Richard Bandler], Richard Bandler |
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[ Pobierz całość w formacie PDF ] 1 INTERVIEW WITH RICHARD BANDLER ”Treating nonsense with nonsense” – Strategies for a better life The interview took place in London, April 7 th and 8 th .The people present at the interview were: Ronnie Amsler, Inger Haut, Lars Haut, Paula Bandler, Richard Bandler Richard: So much of my work changed over the year. I discovered it wasn't good enough to teach people how to do good things. I had to teach them how to make good choices to start with, coz it all boils down in the end to making good things and so that the decisions that you make will be better in the future. The inverse is also true, if you feel bad so you start to make decisions ... People break up their marriage, they are depressed and so they go: ”Who am I gonna be with now?” And when they are propelled from a bad feeling they're gonna make bad decisions. So this makes it so important to feel good before you start deciding what to decide. Otherwise your decisions will not be good decisions. The more you make good decisions the better decisions you will make. The more you make bad decisions - and this is why people have cycles of ups and downs coz it takes very little to change that course around. This is why you have to be so careful that when things are really going bad that you really stop and put yourself into a good state before you re going to make decisions about what you're going to do about it. And people go: ”Well that is not very realistic!” And I go: ”Yeah, but it works!” They told me it is realistic to dredge around in people's childhood to try to figure out how to make them happy adults. To me it sounds absolutely absurd - the idea that because your parents didn't love you enough as a child ... You know I had a crappy childhood, but you know what? I just don't think about it much because I've had a wonderful life as an adult and I made sure it stayed that way. And people say: ”Well, if you repress this stuff it will come out somewhere else.” Well, it will. It will come out in their childhood! To me the Dalai Lama summed it up quite well: ”Sometimes bad things happen - you just don't dwell on them.” If you throw a pebble into a pond it makes ripples for a while but eventually it smoothes out. When people dwell on things too much they blow them out of proportion. This is one of those phrases. Psychologists said they observed people. They did this in a way where they didn't let their own personal feelings get involved. I am not like that. I am personally involved with everyone that I change their lives because they don‘t come to me first to start with. I am not anybody's first choice. By the time they get to me they‘ve been through everything, and pretty much they are told that this is their last hope. And I always look at them and smile and say: ”Well, then you're in big trouble! Because I am not gonna fix you. Coz‘ I don't think you're broken. I think you are just stupid. And one thing that's nice about accepting that you're stupid is that you can always get smarter.” I accept that I am stupid. Interruption from the waiter So where were we? You were going to interview me. Ronnie: You mentioned that late at night you are working on a new book. What is your new book going to be about? NLP INSTITUT ZUERICH © Ronald Amsler 1999, Lättenstrasse 18, 8914 Aeugst am Albis Tel 01/761 08 38 Fax 01/761 08 09 email: ronnie@nlp-institut.ch 2 Richard: Actually there is a couple that I've been working on. One is called "Back from the abyss”. That is primarily a book of fiction. As I say in the beginning there is not one shred of truth in it. So nobody has to be afraid of anything. It kind of oscillates between stories and stories about the stories. It's a book that is designed to dispell fear. It makes fun of absolutely everything - especially me! Because I believe that one of the problems is that people can't poke fun at things. And that's why things become much more serious than they ever ought to be. That the idea that there are laws of thermodynamic, the absolute pompousness of people who made those things up ... that's why I made up the three universal laws of human modeling! And people were asking: ”We are writing our termpaper and what do we reference?” And I said: ”Well, the structure of magic, that's where I laid them out.” And they said: Well, you didn't make them sound like they were laws?” I said: ”Well, other people make up laws, why can't I?” I make up my own laws. To me it's the silly things: I have been accused of such horrid things. But I never thought that they have done a terribly good job of it. So I accuse myself of everything: I blame myself for the black plague. I blame myself for everything that's ever gone wrong on this planet. See, to me it's not where you put blame. It's what you can get done that counts! All these people who have all that time end energy to pluck names of how they're trainers of NLP, head of the German society, head of the Swiss society. But if they have no connection with me they have nothing. Because it is the thread that runs from me to people that is about really the strongest thing that NLP is about. It's about an attitude. And the attitude says that things can get better and that things should be based on doing the right thing for the right reason. Not because people are inherently helpful but because doing helpful things is the right thing to do. You can't sit by and watch children starve. It's the wrong thing to do. And people have known this for centuries and there is only one thing you can do about it and that is to feed them. And start with the one which is the closest to you and work your way out. It's wrong for people to have such wonderful lifespans and no life. To me it's only as we conquer fear ... which is as we said in the workshop I was doing with you, two years ago. When you realize how easy it is to take the sensations that constitute fear which stop people from doing everything. It stops them from being intimate, it stops them from being kind, it stops them from doing the things in life that they wanna do. They are afraid of poverty and yet they never had it, they don't know what it is. They are afraid to try things, they are afraid to do things. They are so afraid they hide behind this pompous beenpusher attitude, where they think titles make up for skills. They think hours make up for enthusiasm. It is not how many hours you spend in a practitioner course. It is how enthusiastic the person who teaches it is. It is not how long it goes on. It is how much information is transferred from one person to another. It is how much skill the other one has. I know of things which are so absurd. I met someone on an airplane who pulled out my book and started reading it. I laughed and said: ”Are you enjoying that book?” The guy said: ”No, but it is very important!” And I said: ”What is it you're trying to get out of it? Because actually I've read that book. It was about thirty years ago and my memory is that there is not that much in it.” And he said: ”I've been in a course for nine months studying the Meta Model” NLP INSTITUT ZUERICH © Ronald Amsler 1999, Lättenstrasse 18, 8914 Aeugst am Albis Tel 01/761 08 38 Fax 01/761 08 09 email: ronnie@nlp-institut.ch 3 Interruption from waiter Ronnie: Lately I‘ve read some articles in NLP Magazines for instance discussions about the Neurological Level Model of Robert Dilts that are so pompous, they strike me like some medieval scholars arguing whether Jesus could have saved the world in the shape of a pea ... Richard sees an article in the magazine on the table: See that picture right there? That picture there belongs to me! That does not belong to whoever wrote the article. That picture there is mine and it is out of my book! Now, what's it doing in his article? He didn't ask me permission for that! It says right here: it‘s the NLP eye accessing cue for normally right handed people. No, it is not! It is Richard Bandler's eye accessing cue chart from Richard Bandler's book. Now that makes this man a plagiarist. NLP has never written anything. It's a word. It's not a human being, it does not own anything, it is just three letters out of the alphabet which I put together as the name of what I do. And I have been very generous about sharing it with people but there are a lot of people who have been much more generous with themselves about stealing it. And that person who published it is guilty of not checking his fax. And he should not publish things by people who are plagiarists. So the publisher of this magazine is just putting things in there to make money. He is not checking his fax like a good journalist should, because he knows what book that came from. But it didn’t quote it from my book. I didn’t see a footnote in there. But yet he publishes articles by people and he just doesn’t care. Because he’s in it for a buck. It’s a good marketing ploy, you know? But I think these people should go and sell aluminum siding and give up my work. Coz' my work is gonna hurt them and they don’t understand this. My work is dangerous, very dangerous, for those who do not use it properly. It does not hurt other people, it hurts the one using it if they don’t use it properly. They will end up being a bigger and a bigger idiot every day and it will become more apparent. They’ll end up taking on Hawaiian guru names and every other idiotic thing you can think of. And I always say: ”It doesn't matter, not even a tad.” (laughter) I got that from my wife. The most important thing is that people focus on what it is that my work is about: My work is about making humans rise above the dung of society - not to be better than other people, but to be better human beings, better than they were the day before, and better the next day than they were the day before that. Not bigger idiots, not bigger titles, not more credentials, not bigger plagiarists. Because I tell you I have never seen so many books written about such few ideas. A journalist from Germany said to me one time that she was at a workshop and they had a table full of books. There must have been 200 different NLP books out there and she said she bought everyone of them and she went and she read all these books and she said: ”All of the stuff that was in all of the books is in your book already. So what are these other books for?” And I said: ”Money! That’s what they are for. They‘re not about ideas. Even the book ”Influencing With Integrity” which I find absolutely ludicrous as a title, right? The introduction is written by somebody R.B., and it’s not me. It’s done totally to make it look like it’s me, but it’s not me. It’s written by somebody else who I guess has those initials but he doesn’t write out his name, it just says R.B. That’s put there to deceive people, that’s all it’s there for. It’s there to cheat and to trick people. So that when they pick up the book and they see it they’ll buy it and somebody makes some money. And everything that’s in the book is NLP INSTITUT ZUERICH © Ronald Amsler 1999, Lättenstrasse 18, 8914 Aeugst am Albis Tel 01/761 08 38 Fax 01/761 08 09 email: ronnie@nlp-institut.ch 4 stolen, including the inside cover plates which were taken from my home. By someone literally stolen, not kind of stolen - literally stolen. There was a game board called ”Loosing Your Marbles” that I was making up at the time. This person stole it and put it inside their book. Now to me, I don't care what anyone says. The truth will be known and the truth will set everyone free in the end. The truth is: This guy who owns the journal and this guy who wrote the article did not make up this work, so I don’t really care if they wanna argue how big a pea is on the nose of Jesus. This does not matter to me one iota.. Inger: You are moving so fast that a lot of your old students are falling behind. Richard: Oh, you mean that you have to keep learning things? I don't stop. I am not done yet. Some people try to avoid learning new things by being more and more stupid. They forgot what was the most important thing. Which is they didn't get into this so that they could be superior to someone. They didn’t get into this so that they could get stuck. They got into this because they tried something new and it gave them a real thrill. For the first time they had an impact that the clients changed in ways. But they forgot that in order to do this they went first. See, when they came they didn’t start by just learning something and going back and changing somebody else. That’s when the thrill happened. But what changed first - was them! You can't stay the same, you can't stay safe. There isn't anything safe anywhere on any planet that I know about. It's a very dangerous thing being alive, as soon as you're alive, you know. Life is the cause of death. Without life there would be no death and people forget that what it is all about is having courage to stand up for what you believe and being able to take the bodysensations that you have and make them so that your hopes, your desires, your dreams, the things you care about and the people that you work with, that all of that stuff is headed into the same direction. That it is headed into the future. So the other book that I am doing is I am putting together some CD's. They are like the tape series I made ten years ago. They were designed to make the human spirit to be able fly and in the past few years as you say most everything is changed. I don't do what I used to do. I don't have to. I found better, faster, quicker, more efficient ways. You know you could sit around for three hours doing reframing. I can't believe that they still teach it. They teach it in courses that I am teaching with them. They don't teach it when I am around, but I just think it takes too long and it's too idiotic. It was a good step. But at that time the reason we had to do it was because people thought hypnosis was bad and they thought it didn't exist. These things don't even fit together but yet this was the current belief. So we made up a goofy way that they didn't have to say the word hypnosis, but they did all the same things. Now that I don’t really think that‘s an issue anymore, I think any competent communicator who thinks hypnosis is bad or good is got to be wearing a dress and it has got to have a white collar on it at the same time. Because anybody else is not thinking about bad or good.They're thinking about what works and what doesn't work. Ronnie: What are areas you have been exploring recently? You mentioned modeling some dangerous stuff. Richard: Some things are more dangerous than others. Things are only dangerous depending on whose hands they're in and how they are used. Many things that were done by various ”cult leaders” ... Rasputin was a great hypnotist, he was a guy that did miracles and people thought he was a bad guy. NLP INSTITUT ZUERICH © Ronald Amsler 1999, Lättenstrasse 18, 8914 Aeugst am Albis Tel 01/761 08 38 Fax 01/761 08 09 email: ronnie@nlp-institut.ch 5 Ronnie: My grandmother knew him. Richard: Your grandmother knew him? Oh, that’s wonderful. Ronnie: She met him when she was a companion to the daughter of the Zar. She spent some time with them in their holiday resort at the Black Sea. She said all women were dependent on him and bragged: ”Only I could resist him!” (Laughter) Richard: ”Mmhm, only I!” Ronnie: ”So I even have some small chance to be a bastard grandson of Rasputin.” (Big laughter) Richard: And what a chance that would be! My wife and I found a photograph of him the other day and we .. Paula Bandler: I want to morph it with Richard‘s picture. Richard: Bansputin, I can see it now. Ronnie: And he used hypnosis, too? Richard: Oh man, I guess. To me there are some fairly unknown things. That‘s part of the reasons that we went to India. It wasn't just because they wanted me to teach there. But there was lots of good ideas to explore. We went to some places where people came to us in droves and shook our hands for being the only white people they had ever seen there. And I got mad. I said: ”Look, I'm not white.” Excuse me, there are some things worth being proud of. Compared to them I might look white but I certainly don't look white when you put me around other people. I don't have the right ideology. I would never make a good nazi. I'm always too busy looking. There are too many things I wanna see. So when they say ”not see” (pronounced like nazi). I say: “No, not me. I will see!” Writing all this nonsense about ethnic cleansing. I think we should drop some mirrors down in that country so these people can take a good look at themselves. You know, that a big tough soldier could chase children out of their homes ... I mean, these people should just basically be ashamed of themselves and until they are we have a lot to teach on this planet. That people think that torturing children is a good idea, I mean excuse me! These people know better than this! But whenever you put groups of dogs or groups of ignorant people together it is no telling what they will do, you know. They run wild. You can take the most domesticated dogs in the world and you put them in packs and they run around and they kill things indiscriminately. And humans are much the same way and until humans learn to simply say: ”No, I won't do that, that's wrong. And you know it's wrong and I'm not gonna do it!” Until someone says it nobody will stand up and say it. And I'm sure these soldiers don't feel right about what they’re doing, they can't. There was one story somebody told on television about how one of the soldiers had helped them to escape, you know. He was supposed to take them out and take everything away from them. And he took them out and told them to get in their car and get the hell out of there. He said: ”My uncle is married to an NLP INSTITUT ZUERICH © Ronald Amsler 1999, Lättenstrasse 18, 8914 Aeugst am Albis Tel 01/761 08 38 Fax 01/761 08 09 email: ronnie@nlp-institut.ch [ Pobierz całość w formacie PDF ] |